Small Bites. Big Breakthroughs.

Ryan McCrea, Leadership development expert and author of Quick Bites of Insight: Leadership Micro Sized Learning on Work and Leadership joins the show.

What We Covered:
 Why traditional leadership development often requires supplemental and additive approaches
 The power of micro-learning in daily leadership
 How small insights lead to lasting behavior change
 Practical ways to develop yourself and your team in real time
 Real-life leadership scenarios and how to respond

Key Takeaways:
 Growth happens in small, consistent moments
 Leaders must move from knowing to doing
 You can build leadership habits without adding more work
 Simple actions create meaningful impact

Get the Book:
Quick Bites of Insight: Leadership Micro Sized Learning on Work and Leadership Connect with Ryan:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmccrea/
https://www.quickbitesofinsight.com/

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, what's your secret? You got the kind of that leads with speech list. It could be model multitasking genius.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Yeah, you got it uh. Welcome back to Breakthrough Conversations with Rhoda and Company, where we have real conversations that help you grow, glow, lead, and breakthrough. Today's episode focuses on a simple idea with real impact, the small moments that shape how you lead every day. I'm joined by Ryan McCrae, a senior talent and leadership development executive with more than two decades of experience helping organizations build strong leaders, better teams, and healthier cultures. Ryan brings a practical, science-based approach to leadership development that focuses on what actually works in the flow of work. He is the author of Quick Bites of Insight, a book that delivers real-world leadership lessons. Leaders can apply immediately. I know this because I've been into it today and I've already picked up a bunch of nuggets, and I can't wait to finish perusing through the book. He has led enterprise learning and leadership strategy and many mid-size to large St. Louis organizations and currently serves as the president of the St. Louis Organization Development Network, continuing to shape the future of leadership and organizational development. I am so excited to have you here, Ron. Thank you for joining. Let's dig in.

SPEAKER_01 1:29

Rhoda, I am so excited to be here. Awesome. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

I love it. Ron, give us your story. What led you to focus on leadership and learning in this way, the way that you do it currently?

SPEAKER_01 1:42

You know, I think for me, I'll go back a little bit. I've always loved learning and leadership development. Even when I was a kid, it was something I was super, super interested in. I was that kind of a nerdy kid that was interested in learning and leadership development. There's just something that I noticed about how people treated someone that really understood how to lead and lead well. I was in a lot of martial arts studios when I was younger. My dad was a martial arts teacher. So seeing him lead that way. And then at some point, I ended up even leading classes. During high school, I picked up a lot of leadership opportunities. It was just something I'm like, wow, okay, I want to do this more. So it got me more excited. And then I went to college and I became an RA and a peer counselor on campus. And I was the president of Psyche. And so I was like, okay, like leadership's it for me. I think this is what I love. And then once I found that Master's of IO Psych degree, and I learned, like, oh, there's a degree that I can use psychology in business and really make an impact. I'm like, wow. That's it. That's for me. That's when the bells went off. And I was like, okay, I know what I want to kind of do with my life.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

That's so rare to at a very young age understand what it is that you're passionate about and seek that out. I read in your intro to your book, Quick Bites of Insight, Micro Size Learning on Work and Leadership by Ryan McCrae. It is phenomenal. Get it on Amazon, Bournes and Noble, and soon to be other places. But I read in your intro how you describe as a kid growing up how inquisitive you were and curious about behavior, human behavior. And that is so profound to me. And something you just said triggered a thought to me around leadership and the importance of it. I find it to be really critical and important because as a leader, you have a lot of influence over the people you lead and impact. And if you don't take it seriously and lead with care and kindness, you could adversely impact the mental, emotional, physical well-being of individuals. So it's super important, in my opinion. So thank you for writing this book and sharing your wisdom with us and all the work that you've done in this space.

SPEAKER_01 3:51

That's a big part of why I wrote it, really. Because if we really think about it, managers have a massive impact on people.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

On just their day-to-day, their lives, their emotional state. Right. So if you I know Gartner a couple years ago put out a put out a study that said, look, actually it was Gallup, and it said the emotional impact that someone has on your life, there's two people that have the largest emotional impact on your life. Your spouse or your partner and your boss is right there, if not more. Right. And that was higher than your friends, your family, your pastor, you know, your coach, your mentor, anyone else, like is your manager because they have that much of an impact over you. They have that much power over you in a lot of ways, informal and formal. So we're taking on a big role when we become someone's leader. A massive, massive role. We have a massive impact on their life, their career, and what they talk about when they go home and eat dinner with their families. Right. And if it's you, I hope they're saying good things.

SPEAKER_04 4:52

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Maybe they're not. So it depends on the person. If they're not, or you're not sure if they are, maybe you need to read the book.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Right. You know, uh, I was speaking with someone the other day, and I was like, you know, when you've had an impact on an employee that you have had the honor to lead, if they invite you to a family reunion and everybody is like greeting you with open arms, you're Ryan. Oh my God, you're Ryan. She talks about you all the time. Versus, you're Ryan. That is so true. The emotional impact, mental, physiological, um, you could break or make a person in a leadership role. So that is so true. What was um the moment you realized traditional leadership development wasn't enough?

SPEAKER_01 5:39

You know, I it's not that I don't think it's enough. I think for me, it's actually more that there's a multitude of ways that you need to try to learn and develop and grow people. So I think when I was younger and I was getting into the field in the beginning, and even when I was at school, you talked a lot about, you know, learning in a classroom. Right. Or you talked about sometimes a program or a cohort program where people are going through a cohort program. Those things are good. Right. And I think those are a little bit more of a traditional approach to how you really think about learning and leadership development. But those aren't the only way you can do that anymore. I think it's very multimodal when I think about experiential learning. And if we really think about what's going on with microlearning, you know, again, this is another opportunity, another way. So I think that those aren't necessarily broken. It's just when I think about learning and leadership development, I don't think about it as one thing.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

I think about it as a bigger ecosystem. And there's a lot of different ways to do that. Some of that could even be things like infographics. Right. You know, people can get a lot out of those as well. So it depends on what they're doing, what they're looking at, all these different ways that you can get the tools, the resources, the information in front of them, hopefully in the flow of work.

SPEAKER_02 6:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Hopefully when they need it. I'm a big fan of like right training, right person, right time.

SPEAKER_02 6:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

And that can be in a lot of different ways. But I think microlearning is one of those ways that you can do that.

SPEAKER_03 6:56

Great point. It reminds me of the 70, 20, 10 rule. You know, uh, a lot of our learning comes from life, day-to-day, real situations, moments that matter, which you mentioned in your book. Yeah, so that's so true. So this book is centered on micro-sized learning, which is what you just spoke of. What does it actually look like in real life for a leader?

SPEAKER_01 7:21

What I'm actually hearing from people. So I've had quite a few people now that are already digging into the book. And what I've heard from just someone last year, I think even just posted something on LinkedIn about it yesterday. He was like, this is like my handbook. Because the reality is that management is getting more and more complicated these days. When we think about organizations, look how many people and how many organizations that are just kind of shedding hundreds, if not thousands, of people. Well, what is that doing to organizations? It's flattening them.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:47

And what is that doing to management leadership? It means that people that used to have, you know, 10 people or five people now might have two times that amount of people. I just had lunch with someone from an old organization that I worked at. He said that they flattened everything in the organization. There's some leaders that have as many as 80 employees now.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Oh, the span of control is off the charts.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

It's off the charts. So there, you've got span of control off the charts. You've got these individuals in these roles that are trying to deal with things that they maybe never have, like hybrid teams. Now you're having to think about you're not only going to have to manage labor, but digital labor. You might be dealing with bots and agents in the future when it comes to things that are going on at your work. Just the world has changed a lot around management in the last five years and it's made it a lot more difficult, which means that people have less and less time for development.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

And you and I know what is the first thing that goes when people don't have time? Training and development. It's training and development. It's the time. It's like, even if you care and even if you want to, you might not use it. So those people that I've been talking to that are using this as kind of a handbook are saying, like, hey, you know, the way that I've been using it, Ryan, is when I've got five, 10 minutes, or maybe I'm, you know, perusing or eating lunch, or I'm waking up in the morning, I've got a couple of minutes. I'm looking at the book and looking at one or two of these, and then trying to think about, okay, I'm going to reflect on what does this mean for me? How do I want to use it in my day-to-day or use it this week? And then it's there because the book isn't written in the way that it's a 300-page book on one topic. It's a book with 60 different topics written in two to three pages. Yes. So it's easy to pick up, it's easy to look at. You can do it kind of in the flow of work. You also can do it in the morning. Like maybe you take a couple minutes and you always drink your coffee in the morning, and you're going to add this book to your time, your coffee time in the morning when you're just relaxing a little bit. So I think it's an opportunity to really plug it in to where you can. Because just people are busy. They don't necessarily have all the time. That's why people like going to TikTok. That's why, like, I haven't read a manual to put anything together, and who knows how long I just go to YouTube and look at that and follow it step by step there. This is another way to kind of plug that into people where they've got a busy, busy life.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Yeah. Quick, easy, simple, digestible. Yeah, our attention spans are pretty short too. And to the point you just made, social media has enabled that. And so we we want things quick. Amazon, YouTube, things at our fingertips. So kudos to you for designing it that way. Do you think you will create this as an audio one day?

SPEAKER_01 10:20

I think I will. Yeah, I think at some point, if I'm gonna see like how it reacts and how people like it, I think doing an audio would be a wonderful way to do it. And I think from talking to you and others, I think it's probably gonna be me that's gonna want to do it. Because I think if I let somebody else do it, I'll probably end up driving myself nuts listening to it and then going like, why didn't you say the word that way? Like, that isn't how I would have said that. Right. So I think at some point that's probably the next steps.

SPEAKER_03 10:45

That's great, great. So why do you think leaders struggle more with applying knowledge than gaining it?

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Mm-hmm. It's a big one. And that's a big part of this book, too. So I've written a keynote for this book. And the where I spend the majority of the probably last five to ten minutes of that keynote is talking about this. It's the whole idea of that forgetting curve. Okay. Like we know that people, you know, can learn. And I think people do have an appetite that's broader and longer than eight seconds to learn. Right. They really do.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

They do.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

They do. And especially if they want to learn, if they want that topic. So I think there's a couple interesting pieces about going from learning something to starting to apply something.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

And there's like four steps, the four R's in between that. I think the first one is, you know, it has to be something that they really find as relevant.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:36

So what if if you're going to try to train them on something they don't care about, you're losing.

SPEAKER_03 11:40

You're losing right off the bat. Right off the bat.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

So one, it needs to be relevant for leaders. So they they have to believe that it's relevant, which means you should know your leaders, do good needs assessment, find out, make sure that they are really, you're giving them training, something that they really want to need. Then they have to reflect. So I think that's the part is like you may know it in your head, but you've got to reflect on it a little bit and say, okay, what am I taking out of this? How do I need to think about this a little bit differently? What are the things I want to do differently based on this? Then I think there's the last two R's. One is you got to get some reps in. Yes. You got to start doing it.

SPEAKER_03 12:14

Repetition is the mother of learning.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

It is. You've got to get those reps in. You've got to get some repetition in. And then I think that last piece too is if you can, it should be real world.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:22

So again, in the flow of work, during that 70%, like you were talking about, how do we make sure that you are doing that? Because we don't teach kids how to play soccer by saying, hey, read this book. Right. And uh, and then you're gonna play in a soccer game next week. Right. No, like we we take we have them go to practice and repeat it and do it in the real world. And that is not different for emotional intelligence or giving good feedback or trying to influence people. If you're not doing it, you're not building that muscle. You're not building the muscle. And that forgetting forgetting curve, again, it tells us like if you aren't using it, you lose it. Right. You know, and that research is like a hundred years old. Now they've continued to build on that research over time, but it is it's true. I mean, the reality is if you don't use it, if you don't break that forgetting curve and make sure that you go back and use it and make sure that you're building the muscle, you're never gonna build that muscle. It's just gonna disappear.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Wow. You said something that reminded me when you used the soccer analogy of my whole leadership philosophy. The way I lead, the way I describe that is the bicycle. So you don't teach someone how to ride a bike by watching you only ride it. They have to get on, you guide, you coach, you help them steady themselves until they get a balance. And the goal is ultimately to let them go, and you do, and then they can ride freely. So that reminded me of my my own personal leadership approach and style. Well stated. What is one small bite that has created a big shift for leaders you've worked with?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

You know, the one that I've heard a lot of feedback about, which I think is kind of interesting, is I have one in there, and it's in the 50s. I think it might be like 53. It's around trauma.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

So how do you get over? Because the reality is that we've all had trauma in the workplace. And workplaces don't like to talk about this. They don't want that word trauma to be associated with them. But the reality is we're human beings. We are, and human beings don't always treat each other well. And stress makes us ask act different when we're humans. So whether we like it or not, no matter how much of a good leader we are, we've probably had a bad day. Yes. And we've probably caused trauma to someone in some way. And then work in the environment, and sometimes that can cause trauma to people too. So it's about trauma. It's a story about trauma. And then it's about, well, what do you do? Like, how do you work through that trauma and how can you start working through it so that it's not just something that just lives with you for the rest of your life? Because a lot of that trauma can be baggage for you. Yes. And I've personally experienced this. Like sometimes I've moved from job to job and I I keep a little bit of that trauma from the last job.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

And it's like, oh yeah, I don't need to carry on. Like this is just extra weight that I don't need. Like this environment is not that environment. This leader is not that leader. Yes. So that's been one I think because we don't talk about it at work. Even though the idea that talking about wellness at work, I think has become more and more popular. I don't think we've gotten so comfortable yet to say, hey, let's actually talk about trauma and how do you deal with that?

SPEAKER_03 15:22

You can build a whole series of books and learning around workplace trauma. It really is weird. I recall when I switched jobs and I would get nerved up about doing my presentations in the team setting because I had prior experience that you were going to be shot down, you were going to be critiqued and tore down in front of everyone. And it I kept thinking that was going ready to happen, and it never happened. So I had to remind myself this is a different group of people, a different workplace, and it's real. That's why we do the work that we do to the point we made earlier. I want to build leaders and raise their awareness to where they can be more intentional and take care of the people that they're leading and care about the impact that they're having because it can have lifelong impacts.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

100%. Yeah. One of the other stats that I loved was a recent article that I was talking about was saying that 40% of people's workplace stress comes from their manager.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

That's that's huge. I don't want to be that late. First of all, if any of my prior employees that I've led in my career are listening, I want to ask your forgiveness because early in my career wasn't intentional, but I was like this high driver. And I was working three and four in the morning, sending out emails, not expecting them to respond, but they were feeling the pressure and thinking they had to respond and match how I was working. So that was an error on my part. But I learned over the years that's not the message I want to send or the environment or the culture I want to create. And so I just want to ask them to forgive me for that. But people don't have to make those mistakes like me and others have made because of resources like this and other uh wisdom that's being shared across the ecosystem for people and they can learn from it. That's why I'm so glad that people like us, as we matured in our career journeys, we're now pausing, accumulating all the wisdom that we've acquired and sharing it in some format. So, what inspired you to write the book?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Oh, wow. So you know what? What's funny is I didn't even know I was gonna write a book, Rhoda. It actually didn't start out as a book. What I did is back in 2025, I challenged myself to write a quick three to 500 word, you know, again, practical, thoughtful. I wanted my readers to reflect and think.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

And so I'm like, I'm gonna do this every Wednesday for the rest of the year. Like it's a challenge to myself that I that I did. And so starting in January, I started doing this. And around May, I was in the shower, of course, where all good ideas come from. And I was in the shower and I was like, oh my God, I've been writing a book all year.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

And I'm like, oh, holy crap. And so I literally jumped out of the shower. I don't even know if I put deodorant on. I just like threw some clothes on, ran to my computer, pulled everything that off that I either posted or prepared to be posted, because I had like scheduled out a whole bunch of months and stuff. And I already had 10,000 words. So I had 10,000 words already. And so all in one weekend, I pulled all of that down, found I had 10,000 words, wrote the introduction to the book that you guys are reading, at least pretty close to it.

SPEAKER_02 18:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Pretty close to the introduction, at least probably 90% of what it was. And then also decided to call it Quick Bites of Insight. I read, I rebranded everything on my LinkedIn page, Quick Bites of Insight. And then I also bought the domains for the website that weekend. So all one weekend I was like, I'm in. So like I've always wanted to write a book. People have been bothering me for at least four or five years to write a book. They're like, get all this great stuff in your hand out. And I was like, okay, okay. Like it just kept coming up, but it wasn't something that I'd really thought about until that moment. It just felt like everything just converged into the perfect moment of like, now this is gonna happen and I'm gonna do this.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Right. I'm so glad you did. And you and I talked before we came on air. This is more, it's more than a book. The book is not gonna live by itself. There's gonna be a whole experience around this and workshops and opportunities to be immersed in this, where it's applicable and people can really live it and experience it. And that is gonna be fun to watch. So I love it. When you get that idea that it pops up, it's in you. I say everybody have a book, at least one in them. Um, you acted up on it and did it, and you gave yourself goals. Because when you and I first met, you were you were in the process of getting ready to get it published, and it happened, and here we are today.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

It was undeniable. Like it was happening that day. It just told me, nope, it's time.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Right. So, how is your book different from other leadership books that are out there?

SPEAKER_01 20:13

So, you know, I think mine is different because of the format. So it's not necessarily the content, it's you know, it again, it's 60 short, digestible, practical topics. You know, 60 insights. And most of them are on work, a lot of them are on leadership too. But I think that's really great for people that are leaders, want to be leaders. You know, even I think we were talking about as we were walking into the studio, potentially those that are are kind of aspiring professionals or those early professionals, this is probably a really great book for them as well. So I think it's about the format, it being those quick 60 bytes. Yes. Because it's really easy to again pick it up, read a couple things, and then take it, reflect on it, think a little bit more, and do it. And then pick it up again in another week.

SPEAKER_02 20:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

Oh, one of the things that I'm even gonna be posting about and talking about a little bit later in the week on LinkedIn is like this is a perfect book. Like, if you've got team meetings, you know that you have 52 opportunities for development throughout the year. Well, guess what? There's 60 stories, so you could pick one each week and take five minutes at the beginning of your meeting and have everybody read it. It takes a minute to read.

SPEAKER_03 21:21

Like, I was really before I came here, really getting into it. I had just opened it because I just got and I was getting far far long because it's quick.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

It's quick, like it, which is which is on purpose. It's intentional. Like I don't go deep on everything. Right. Like, do I talk about emotional intelligence? Yes. There's wonderful books about emotional intelligence out there. Go and read them. Read those great books on emotional intelligence. But none of it is super, super deep because that's not the purpose of the book.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

It's micro.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

It's micro. And like, and I wanted people to, even if they get exposed and say, you know what? Ooh, this is an interesting topic. I want to go read more about this. Do it. I love it. You want to learn more about feedback? Go read a little bit more. About you know CCL's model around feedback. You want to learn a little bit more about emotional intelligence, great. Go read, you know, go read Amy's book. Go read Amy, go dig in, like find out a little bit more about all those things. In some ways, I think that for some people that aren't super big business people or business books or like leadership books, this might be a really great way to get in and kind of learn a little bit more about some of this. So they can just it's a foundation so they can decide if they want to dig in deeper.

SPEAKER_03 22:26

I agree. I agree. And to your point, the depthness comes from the reflection part. And so this is meant to be insights, quick bites of insight to prompt the thinking and self-reflection that could prompt you to want to go deeper. But yes, I love that. So if someone only applied three insights from your book, which ones would you want them to start with?

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Ooh, that's great. I'm gonna I'm gonna put my glasses up on this one. So I thought about that and I was like, wow, you know, I think it depends on the audience. So there's a lot of different audiences that would probably look at that a little bit different. So I said, okay, if I picked a newer or kind of a manager that's want to continue to grow themselves and kind of remind themselves of some of the most important things, I picked three based on that. And I that I think so, one of the first ones is insight number 13. So career clarity through conversation. You and I both know having a good career conversation with people is important. Yes. This is a list of like questions and topics that conversation that you can have with people, especially when it comes to their development. Just because we know that's one of the big reasons people leave organizations. It's one of the big reasons that they they leave organizations. Yes, managers can sometimes be that, but also development is another big one. That's a big part of why people leave organizations. So I think that's one good, especially if you don't feel comfortable having a good development conversation with your people. I think the next one I picked was Insight 27. Are your one-on-ones driving performance or just going through the motions?

SPEAKER_03 23:55

I had just started reading that one before we came.

SPEAKER_01 23:57

Yeah, and that one's a big one because I actually believe, Rhoda, that one-on-ones are a really powerful tool and they get misused. And it's mainly because no one's really taught a manager or a leader how to have a good one-on-one. And so if you haven't had a good one-on-one before, you don't really know.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Most one-on-ones are deeply tactical, very tactical. And it should be way more than that.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

I even think about one-on-ones the way that I think about them in my head is I kind of break them up into thirds. The first third, I want to know what do they need from me.

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

What do they need? What's getting in the way? What advice do they need? What guidance do they need? You know, what problems can I try to solve for them or with them? The second third is really about okay, well, what might I need to know? Right. Or what might I need to share with them? Maybe again, because sometimes where we sit in the organization, we have more information than they do. So how do I share that with them? The third piece is about development.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Like again, plug into the development pieces like, how do you have a really good conversation? Make sure that you know a little bit more about what they want, what they need, what experiences, what skills are they trying to build? How can you plug them into some of those experiences so that they can continue to develop and grow? It's a great opportunity to kind of build like real trust and bonding with someone and not just make it a check the box on. Have you done this? Have you done this? Have you done this? It's like it should be much more than that. So I think one-on-ones are a big one. And then the last one I chose is Insight 30. Accountability isn't mean, it's meaningful.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

I love that title when I read that.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

And I think the thing with that one is we talk a lot about wanting to be an emotionally intelligent leader, or you hear a lot of the discussion around human-centric leadership. And that is important. But I think what maybe turns some people off, especially people alike in the engineering field or the accounting field or lawyers, to like, feelings, no. Humans. Humans is, you know, to really do this well and to be a good leader, you need to be able to balance and understand not only that emotional intelligence side, again, you got to treat people well, like you've said a couple of times during the podcast. You also have to know how to hold them accountable. Correct. Because I think a lot of times when we hear things about like psych safety, people are like, oh, that's so soft. No, like if you read into the concept of psych safety, psych safety talks a lot about holding people accountable. That's an expectation is part of it. So I think if you're a good leader, you can actually hold people accountable because you need to. As leaders, that's that's part of our job. Right. But then also, how do we really make sure that we are treating people like people, like humans? Right. Because they are. And some people sometimes we don't know what's going on in their day-to-day, especially if you're having a bad one-on-one, you definitely don't know what's going on at their home.

SPEAKER_03 26:33

Right. And if you're canceling them all, if you're canceling them, some leaders do that too.

SPEAKER_01 26:37

Oh, yes, yeah. Like that's the worst when they're just they cancel them. I believe at least one-on-ones, and I always tell my kids, those are sacred to me.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Like I am never going to straight up cancel a one-on-one with you. I will do my best. I might move it, but I will always make sure that we have time and you have time with me that we can.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Yes. Yeah, we are kindred spirits that way. That is that is some good stuff. I had a thought when you were speaking and it's trying to leave me. I wanted to come back, come back to me, come back to come back thought. It'll come back. Yeah. So if you had to describe who this book is really for, who would you say it's really for?

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Yeah. I think it's for leaders from soup to nuts. So people that are emerging leaders that are just starting, that are very interested in leadership, all the way to someone that's an executive. I think an executive could get things out of this book as well and might be more apt to read it, quite honestly, because they probably won't read or don't have the time to read a three or four hundred page book. So they might actually read this. So I think that's one group.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

I think the second group is just professionals because the way that this was written, there's a lot of leadership insights in there. But we all know that in our roles, we have to show up in leaders in a lot of different ways.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

And there's just a lot of work insights in here too. Like, how do you, how do you kind of build some of these important key skills for work? So I think it's for any professional that has to work in a professional environment at all. I think that's a big one too.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

So I think those are the two for me really big audiences, which pretty much means almost everybody.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Really, when it comes down to it. I mean, I think I've had a couple people that reviewed it that said, like, I feel like there's a lot of just life lessons in this.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

Yeah, period.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

That like people that maybe even aren't super into a professional environment or have to work in a corporate environment, like could probably get a lot out of this book as well. But I think for me, it's especially like leaders and professionals. Anyone that works and does work and works with other people, you probably can get something out of this book.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

Yes. And my thought came back when you were speaking about accountability. So when I say human-centric, I it assumes accountability because for me, if you care about people, you're obligated to tell them the truth and hold them accountable. Caring is you can be kind in that. An example is I had an employee at the last place I was at, and she was green. So I was constantly coaching and mentoring in a very gentle way, but high accountability. And she knew I have really high standards for people. But I don't just leave them the chance, I help them reach that. And so one time I needed to give her feedback based on the observation I had had on a meeting that she asked to lead. And I called her and because we work remote, and I said, Do you have the capacity to receive feedback today? And she said, Yeah, she got real curious. And that's an example of what I mean by high accountability but human-centric. Um, because if she told me I really don't, I wouldn't have given it in that moment. But it doesn't have to be an all lovey dovey, even though I'm really a lovey-dovey person. But I also know that we have to get work done. Yeah. Yeah. So I just wanted to make that.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

I love that phrase too that you use. Like I've said it in some different ways, but I've never said, Do you have capacity for feedback? I love that. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 30:03

Yeah. Chef's kiss. Chef's kiss. So, Ryan, let's make this real. I'm going to throw out a few scenarios and you can give us quick bite responses.

SPEAKER_04 30:13

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

So the first one is a leader says, I didn't have time or I don't have time to develop my team. What's your quick bite?

SPEAKER_01 30:21

I think there is one in here, and you mentioned it earlier, this idea of the 70, 20, 10, 11, 10 model. And that one of the ways to be really developing is within work. Like I remember one of my last organizations, I had somebody that was super into in vit, and I think I talked about this in the book. Like, she wanted to build her strategic capacity. Right. And so I gave her a project and said, okay, build the strategy for this. And she goes, Oh, oh. And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, you build the strategy for this. I'm like, it's something you said you want to work on. So go and do it. I'm like, here's a couple people that are really great at strategy too. As you're building it, pick their brains a little bit more too. We're going to talk about in your one-on-one to see what's working and what's not. But you have to do it within the work, I think, a lot of times. So the leaders that tell me like they don't have time for it, not true because people have business goals. People often have development goals. We know that you're assigning them work or where they're they're having work that you're seeing or oversee in some way, shape, or form. So how do you plug that development into what they're already doing?

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Correct. Correct.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

That's it.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

That is so true. On the job. I love that. An employee feels unseen and disengaged. What's one small action a leader can take today?

SPEAKER_01 31:30

I think it actually starts with reflection again. So I would probably reflect a little bit to say, am I doing something or have I done something to make that person's behavior change? Like, have I shut them down in a meeting? Or have I not let them pursue an idea that they were really interested? Now, maybe there was a reason I didn't let them pursue it, but is there, did I do something? So one, I'm gonna probably start with me first. Right. A lot of leaders don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

A lot of leaders don't think about what did I do to potentially cause this scenario. So one, I may not be the problem, but I'm gonna at least think through and go, oh, is there anything that I did? Then you got to talk to people. Like this is where you gotta have those harder, those real conversations with your people, those messy conversations of like, look, you know what? Something's different lately. Like you feel a little different. Like, you know, it I see you kind of backing off and shying off in meetings a little bit more. Like I get the sense, or maybe you said this the other day, and it made me feel that maybe you feel like maybe you're a little unseen or people aren't listening to you. Like, tell me what's going on. Was there something that triggered that? Is it a is it a person? Is it a behavior? Is it something I did? Like, I want to be able to help you.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

So let's talk about what that looks like. But I think you have to ask the question because you might not know. It could be something totally different. Maybe they've got something going on at home.

SPEAKER_02 32:46

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Maybe they've got something with a parent or a child or their own personal health or or a spouse's personal health. Who knows? It could be almost anything. But if you don't ask, you're never gonna know.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

And you have to have trust. Yes. This is where trust is important. Because even if it is something you did, if the employee doesn't feel safe to share that with you. And trust is important to build before you need it. Yes. Because in a crisis moment, it's it's not gonna be, you're not gonna build it right then. It's too late. Yeah. So that is that's great advice. What if a high performer is struggling but won't say it? What should a leader do differently?

SPEAKER_01 33:29

I think there's a little bit of reflection on this one too. Because it I think look at the ecosystem that's going on around that person. I think the one thing with people that are really high performers is we often really have a halo, a halo effect on it.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

So, you know, if they're really good at 99% of things or 75% of things, we think they're good at 100% of those. Right. So one of the first things I do in a scenario like that is like, oh, okay, that's a that's someone who's usually totally on it and they're a little off lately. Like, what's going on? I'm gonna look around the environment. Has something changed? Has their job changed? Has I think about return to office? Has something changed, you know, around maybe them having to return to the office, you know, has there are there new expectations that maybe they're not sure of? Because again, we think somebody's really great. That doesn't mean that the new goal or new thing or new system that is coming up doesn't mean that they're gonna be great at it or know it or get it or even understand why we're doing it in the first place. So I think I want to look at that bigger, broader ecosystem first. I want to again step back a little bit as a leader and think through that a little bit. Right. But then I think it goes back to similar what we just talked about. Is I think you got to have a conversation with them. You gotta say, look, Rhoda, you're awesome. I know you're awesome. You do amazing work, Rhoda. Like something's a little off lately. Like, you know, I've noticed that either it's like, is again, if it's it's not usually a skill thing with you. Is there is there something kind of from a will perspective that's going on here? Is there something else going on in your life? Are you not sure or comfortable with this new goal or this thing that we've got you working on? Or is there something that has kind of taken your motivation away from it? So tell me a little bit more because this isn't the normal you rota that I would see. So how what's changed? And I think you've got to have that conversation with them too. And you I think you're gonna be surprised sometimes what it really is that's leading to that behavior, especially for someone who's like a really super like high performer, high potential type person.

SPEAKER_03 35:17

And I call those conversations courageous conversations. You just gotta have the courageous conversation. And you start, you can even start with because I care. I'm wanna on and you asking, you never know, makes that person feel seen. And so that's important too. The other thing I wanted to mention when we were talking earlier about uh the self-reflection as the leader, and we don't often see that. They're always most of the time looking outward. Um one of the things I would periodically, not every one-on-one, but periodically at the end of my one-on-ones with my direct reports, I would say, what's something that I do that you want me to continue doing and you want me to do more of it? And they would tell me, and then I would ask the hard question, what's something that I do and you say, Oh, I hate when Rhoda do that. I wish she wouldn't do that. And they would often laugh, and I would be very serious. Tell me what it is because I want the feedback. So to your point, always reflecting and looking inward is important as a leader. And then the final scenario I'll ask, is a peer avoids giving you tough feedback. Speaking of feedback, because they don't want to hurt the relationship, and now the issue has grown. What's your quick bite?

SPEAKER_01 36:39

So I think there's two here. So I'll go back to the book on this one because there's a lot in there about feedback. People are probably like, you're talking a lot about feedback in this book.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

Well, feedback's big part of leadership.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

It's a big part of leadership, big part of work. I mean, no one can really get away from feedback. So there's two specific quick bites that I'd probably say. One is uh quick bite three. So quick bite three talks about like asking questions, asking the right questions. A lot of times, people, when they're trying to get feedback, are so general. Like they might say, like, give me some feedback. Like, not even specific, like you were saying, like, hey, tell me like what I'm doing that gets in your way the most. And I love that question. I use it a lot as tell me what, how am I making your job harder? Like, how can I be better? Like, what am I doing to get in your way? And people love that question. They'll tell you. Maybe not in that one-on-one, but they'll tell you sooner or later. I remember the one of the last conversations I had with one of my team members from my last organization. She's like, so that meeting, I had it. I didn't need you to talk at all.

SPEAKER_04 37:38

And I was like, Okay, got it. Right perfect.

SPEAKER_01 37:40

I'm like the next step, the next time we go into those meetings, let's talk about what you want me, how you want me to be involved and how you don't. I was trying to step back, but clearly I didn't step back far enough. So perfect. I'm glad that you were comfortable enough coming to me and telling me that. I'm like, so the next time we go into one of those big meetings, and I she's like, I want them to look at me as the expert. I'm like, I want them to look at you as the expert too. She's earlier in her career, and I wanted this, I wanted her to be looked at that way because she was crazy smart. I'm like, yes, I want you to be looked at that way too. So I think three is asking the right questions, getting a little bit deeper, asking, making sure you're asking the right questions and not just asking a general question or feedback. But I think 33 is another big one that I've got in there as well. And 33 talks a little bit more as a leader. Let's say that you know that something isn't working. Or again, in this scenario, maybe you can tell like there's something off with a relationship. So I think it's really getting in there and saying, okay, so like tell me more about our relationship, or hey, like I'm feeling maybe we're a little bit off and like I might need to tweak or adjust the way that we're having the conversation. There's a model that I talk about in there because I think leaders struggle with this. Like once they do get feedback or know that there's something going on. I actually one advertise what I think the problem is. So I go to the person or even some this might be in front of a team. I used to help leaders do this when I was back at Monsanto. Like they really struggle because back then they got what was called an L180. And every single person on their team filled this out. And if you had enough of them, you got to see from your direct team how are you doing.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

How they were experiencing you.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

How they were experiencing you. And so what would come of that was like, okay, like, well, you see that there's some things in here that you need to work on. And so I would have them dig in and say, okay, look, start with advertising. You know what? I listened, I heard what you guys had to say here. These seem to be the big three things that I really need to work on. So I'm gonna first advertise and like let you know that, yep.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

I heard you. I heard you.

SPEAKER_01 39:33

And I go two is to really empower them. Empower them to give you the feedback. Let them know that, like, you know what, I want to get better at these things. I probably can't do this just solely by myself. So I need your help. I need you to give me the high sign when I'm going too long in a meeting or I'm talking over you, or whatever it is. You need to let me know and do it in a respectful way, but let me know. Let's let's talk about how you can do that. Sometimes as a leader, that might also be coupled with, I need to apologize. You just did like earlier in my career, like I've done this. So you were showing like that apologize aspect of like empower and apologize. Yes. And then last, it seems crazy, but you follow up. So, like if you do all of that and you go through all of that and you make this big, like, you know, help me get better as a leader and then never do anything with it, forget it.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

You lose trust.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

You lose trust. And I think that's a similar scenario and situation with that. Like, you know, you want to get in there, you want to have the right conversation. If there is something you're doing to really upset that person or something that's not going well in the relationship, you're like, okay, you know what? All right, I hear you. So it sounds like I need to work on this when it comes to our relationship. I'm empowering you to give me the feedback. I apologize for maybe getting in the way. Right. You know, the last couple months, I thought I was actually helping. Maybe I wasn't really helping. You know, and let's make sure that we do a monthly one-on-one and that we touch base and we make sure that what I need to work on is being adjusted. Maybe they've got something they need to work on. Maybe it's again relationships are often two-sided. So, how can we come to the table and make sure that we're making those tweaks and adjustments so that we can work better together?

SPEAKER_03 41:08

Those are great. Those are great. So, Ryan, what habits separate leaders who grow from those who stay stuck?

SPEAKER_01 41:15

I think intentionality. I think it's intentionality. Yeah. I think the people that I've seen that whether you're a leader or not, quite honestly, the ones that I think that do the best are intentional about it and invest the time and the energy. And think about that reflection piece.

SPEAKER_04 41:28

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Like those are the ones that do it. Like if you say you're gonna do something or you're gonna develop, you stick to it. You keep that time on you similar to one-on-ones, like I talked about earlier. That development time should probably be a little sacred. Yes. And I get it, it's hard to sometimes fit it in with everything else that's going on in the world. But when I'm really honest and candid about it, the people that I've seen grow and develop, the people that I'm inspired by and that I'm impressed with from a leadership perspective, and I have high expectations, very, very, very high expectations. It's the ones that are intentional about it. Right. It's the one that's taken the time that have put the effort in. That, you know, again, might have their routine of like, I'm gonna wake up in the morning and read this one book or read a chapter from this one book and then think about how I'm gonna dig into it. The people that actually change their behaviors and try out new things, because that's a big part of what this book is about, is like small, practical, easy things. I don't expect you to like change overnight, but change your behaviors a little bit. Yes, just a little bit. And so small changes can have a big impact on what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Small victories add up. Yeah, yeah, 100%. So, what is one mass shift leaders need right now?

SPEAKER_01 42:37

It's a good one. I do think we talked about the one-on-one thing earlier. I just think that's a big one. I do think I do think leaders need to make sure that they're having good one-on-ones. The reason why I think they need to make sure that they're having good one-on-ones, whether they're doing this in a one-on-one format or not, I think they need to be really touch and basic people. There's a lot going on in this world right now, and a lot of it's really confusing, and things are changing on a day-to-day basis. There's not a lot of stability in this country right now. And when we really think about what's important for people in an organization, and stability is a big one. Hope is a big one.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

And there's a a kind of a a lot less hope and stability going on right now in this world.

SPEAKER_03 43:19

We kind of have all been suffering from post-traumatic syndrome since COVID days, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

100%. Yeah. And I think it's just continued to get more challenging, and there's so much change that's going on every day in this country right now. Don't forget that.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Right.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

Like, you know, there's some people on your team that are probably totally fine and they're just like blocking it all out and they're good. There's probably a lot of people on your team that are really struggling too. So I think take the time, have the conversation, get to know your people, you know, get to know them, get to know what really makes them excited and what demotivates them. But just check in on them, make sure that they're okay. I think everyone needs to do that right now. Sometimes, even as Leaders, we need to get checked in as well.

SPEAKER_03 44:03

That's so true. And especially too, one thing we haven't mentioned, but I saw that you have a insight on is the remote and hybrid work force. So when a lot of us are working remote, it's very lonely.

SPEAKER_04 44:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

And you don't if you're not touching base and connecting with people intentionally, you can lose them. They could stay but be gone at the same time, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 44:32

I think you know, the last five years, what we've seen is there was probably already a little bit of a loneliness problem in this in this country, anyways. But I think in this country and even in the world, we've seen a lot being written around this loneliness epidemic. Because it is. Like even people that I know that are introverted, that again gain their energy usually from a conversation with one person versus a big party or going to a big meeting. Like even they can get lonely just being at home working by themselves.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

I mean, it's it's hard when you do are in a fully remote role, or even if you go into the office and literally you've been sitting behind a microphone or Zoom. Right. Or TV. To do that. Like you're literally sitting in a car or you're sitting at your maybe you've eaten lunch there too. Like you've literally not left your desk all day besides to go to the bathroom. Like that can be just as lonely as sitting at home and doing that. Yeah, there might be a whole bunch of people around you, but that doesn't mean that you've even got time to talk to them.

SPEAKER_03 45:26

Right. And Ryan, even some people I talk to that have to go in the office like two days or three days a week. They go and it may be one or two people in the whole building. So that it's like reinforced loneliness.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

Yeah. That is so true. So, Ryan, if um, every listener took one small action after this episode, one small action, what should it be?

SPEAKER_01 45:53

Yeah, I think it's by the book. Yes. That was my that was my thought too. Yeah, by the book, I think. And again, it's not about making massive, huge changes to the way that you're leading. It's about small changes. Yes. And it's about being thoughtful. It's about being reflective. It's again thinking about how are you going to get that repetition and that real world in. And this is a great way to do that. It's easy. That's why I wrote it. So that it would make it easy and practical for people to be able to do this. So pick it up. Pick one. Pick the one that speaks to you the most. Even if you just go through if you go through and look at all the titles and say, okay, yeah, this is the one that I think means the most to me right now. Read it, reflect, figure out how you're going to actually apply it in those next couple of weeks. And then when you're done, go back and pick another one.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

Yes. Yes. I love that. So, Ryan, if they wanted to follow you, connect with you, reach out to you. And if there's leaders on the call, listen, and they want to bring you in for a workshop even with their teams, how might they find you?

SPEAKER_01 46:54

Yes, you can definitely get me on LinkedIn. So I post quite a bit on LinkedIn. So that's a great place to get me and keep up to date on kind of what I'm doing. Also, you can get me on www.quickbytes of insight.com. So it's got a website that just got just went live yesterday. So people can check it out there on the site. You've got an email again, Ryan at quickbites of insight.com. They can reach out to me about workshops, you know, keynotes, other ways that they might want me to potentially work with them and help them continue to grow and develop their leaders. And also there's even a place there to just leave me a note if you don't even want to email. If you just want to go to the ins uh the go to the website and do that too as well, you can do that too. Right. So I think those are the best plates. Check out the website. It's all up there. It's live. I'm excited for people to see it. And then catch me on LinkedIn because it's always a great place. And I'm I check that quite often.

SPEAKER_03 47:39

And the book is available where?

SPEAKER_01 47:41

It is available on uh so both versions of it are available on Amazon, on on bookshop.org, on Barnes Noble, not in the stores yet. Right. It's it's on the site. And then there is a smattering of other places like Kobo and places that you can get, you know, the digital copy if you really like an ebook. And that's all on the site. Like all the little link logos and links for everywhere you can buy the book are on quickbites of insight.com.

SPEAKER_03 48:11

Ryan, this has been a fun conversation. Now, this is a topic I can talk about for quite a long time. Super passionate about it. And I just love that you took those insights that you had and you put them in this format and future formats to come. This was a powerful conversation, and it's life-changing for those that take this subject matter seriously and that are intentional about their development and specifically about their leadership development. So you made leadership feel practical, real, and doable. So kudos to you. Quick bites of insight, microsize learning on work and leadership. Ryan McCrae, get the book. What I love most is this reminder: you do not need massive change to become a better leader. You need consistent, intentional moments. And to everyone listening, if this conversation resonated with you, go grab Ryan's book, Quick Bites of Insight. Start small, stay consistent, watch what ships. And thank you, Ryan, for joining us today. And thank you for our listeners tuning in to breakthrough conversations with Rhoda and Company. This is your reminder that your breakthrough does not have to be big to be meaningful. It starts with one step. Thank you all for listening.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Hey, what's your secret? You got the kind of that leads with speechless. It could be model multitasking genius. Yeah, you got it uh. Hey, what's your story? They can't get moment 40 under 40. It's talking practicing your high hill glory. I do it uh.